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Go Back   Devoted Fans Network > Entertainment Forums > Television > Current Television Boards > Supernatural > Supernatural Episode Forums > Supernatural - Season 6 > 6.07 - Family Matters

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Old 11-07-2010, 08:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by kendall_se View Post
oh, it totally sounded like i am blaming Gaelic for not liking Sam, does it?
Humm... Errr... cough cough. Yeah, it did, honey. And I'm more than glad that it was not the case. Thank you for pointing it out! :hug:

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I am just trying to understand.
I'm trying to understand him, too. But maaaaan... It's hard because I have NO idea what's like to have no soul.

It's complicated because I can't held him 100% responsible for his actions right now. He's not innocent and he knows what he is doing. But his judgments are compromised because he's not 100% him. He is 50% Sam... It's just like Dean said "I can feel it. And you weren't Robot-Sam, you would feel it, too.". But he can't. So he won't act like SAM while he doesn't have his soul. I'm like... re-discovering Sam all over again because he's not the same. (I believe Gaelic said that, too)

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Shaula,
some time ago, i read how one girl said, she hopes they are just going to kill Sam off soon ... with all the other bad things included, that's why it's hard to love Sam. There are so many who hates him and wish him gone and that's hurting.
Jesus! *Channeling Dean* I'm going to rip her lungs out!!!!!! :grr: I HATE when people bash Sam (or Dean), that's why I rarely go at other places. Sometimes I have, though. I need to, because of the news search. So, believe me when I say that I know how vicious some people can be. And I hate it with all my being. I totally understand you. :hug:
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:08 AM   #22
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i don't know how you get these hugging smilies, but i am sending you one too.

and i am trying to not offend anybody, sorry sorry, again.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:28 AM   #23
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Well, if you want to get in the bottom of things.... Then, no. It's NOT really in the Bible. Not the cage. Not Satan in Cage (or in Hell). These concepts came later, by traditions.
I didn't say Michael banished Lucifer to the cage in real biblical lore, or at least that's not what I was meaning to say... I said that Michael banished Satan to Hell. If he did or not in the Bible, I don't know honestly. I'd have to go back and read. It's been a long time since I actually sat and read the Bible, but Satan has always been in Hell that we learned in my church when he wanted to basically overthrow God.

It would be silly of them to actually screw that up by saying that Lucifer isn't in Hell. Lucifer has always been in Hell that we all know of. As for them coming up with concepts, hooray for them, but it has always been known that Satan was in Hell. He wasn't in Heaven, that's for sure. He was banished.

Isiah 14:12

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Satan wanted to be God. The Bible tells us in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 that Satan has become the "god of this world". And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

in Supernatural they've moved and tweaked storylines with the whole Michael and Lucifer fighting, Lucifer being banished into Hell by Michael, Lucifer being trapped in a cage at the very lowest pits of Hell that even piss ant demons can't get there or see him, but Lucifer still went to Hell and he was still eternally punished for doing what he did.
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:10 AM   #24
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i don't know how you get these hugging smilies, but i am sending you one too.
There is a button sided to the quick reply called "Go advanced". Click there and you'll see a box with smilies... Click in "More" and you'll see all of the smilies. They're very cute... (giggle)


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I didn't say Michael banished Lucifer to the cage in real biblical lore... I said that Michael banished Satan to Hell.
I don't really want to turn this into a biblical discussion.... .... but the Bible never says that Satan is in Hell. If you read Job you'll see that he had access to Heaven with the other angels. He was punished yes, he was degraded with his demons after they commit their sins, but he had access to Heaven until Michael banned them form Heaven to Earth, according to Revelation chap 12.

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And Revelation 20:10 tells us that he will be eternally punished for it.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Yes... And the verse 10 also says that. But it means total destruction, with no return. We can know that because it's what Revelation 20:14 says.

Please, don't be mad? :shy: The only reason I'm saying this is only to show you that it's not actually in the Bible.... And since you said that you don't know, I thought it would be interesting to post it here...


I agree with the rest of your comment, by the way. It would be silly of them to make the cage in another place because it's a general consensus that Satan is in Hell. It's even part of the mythology of the show.... I don't think they'll say otherwise. The cage IS in Hell. Just not in a place that it's easy to find... And the demons don't have access to the place. I think it was what Castiel meant...
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:19 AM   #25
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Eh, well, whatever. I'm not gonna argue over it either. All I know is that all my life when I was a kid, I was brought up to believe in church that Satan is in Hell and that's all I know. I'm not some massive Christian honestly. I don't sit and read the Bible in my free time. I don't go to church every Sunday. As I said, it's been years since I've read it. So it's okay.

But yeah, according to Sera, the cage is actually at the very bottom of the worst pit of the ninth circle of Hell. It's an article I read in one of my SPN magazines. I'm just too tired and sick to go dig it out and look it up.
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:21 AM   #26
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But yeah, according to Sera, the cage is actually at the very bottom of the worst pit of the ninth circle of Hell. It's an article I read in one of my SPN magazines. I'm just too tired and sick to go dig it out and look it up.
And it's not necessary either. I remember this and they always alluded that the Cage is in Hell... :
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:25 PM   #27
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First let me say that as the only person in my little corner of the world that currently watches Supernatural that it is great to find a place to talk about my favorite obsession with others who think so deeply about these matters.
Let me also remind, kindly, after having read some posts, that it can be very difficult to tell the "tone" of a person writing when their meaning would be quite clear if they were in person, so any interpretations one perceives should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt.
As a correctional psychologist, it is very interesting to me to read the speculations of others on the psychology of Sam and Dean, and a lot of it is right on. As Dean himself said of others in "The End," he is a "twitchy trauma survivor," and I know by working with such people every day that they often react violently or lie out of a perceived need to protect themselves. Dean is seriously freaked out right now, so don't look for him to calm down any time soon. Sam, to a certain degree, is reacting as a psychopath would. Don't take that the wrong way; research indicates that psychopaths, even when logical and intelligent, have an inability to realize or properly interpret the harm they do to others. WholeSam feels and cares very deeply, while SoullessSam can function quite well in his line of work, even taking pride in it, without being able to see how some of his decisions could hurt others or cause them to not trust him.
I think that one of the main things that draws us to the show as fans is the psychological accuracy of the characters, in particular, how they are excellently portrayed by the two main leads. With this in mind, and really not wanting them to have fake or superficial reactions to all they have endured, I think we will have to brace ourselves for some continuing tough times for our heroes, and their emotions, as they work through this latest crisis.
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:15 PM   #28
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First, welcome to the forums! Nice to see you here and I hope you plan on hanging around with us crazy SFO'ers. :hug: I say crazy as some of us tend to get a little passionate here, but we all still love each other! :hahaha:

Second, I get that you're a correctional psychologist and all, but...how can you honestly refer to Sam as a psychopath when the man has no soul? The lack of soul is making him lack a moral center, truth be told. I mean I get how you're saying he's reacting as a psychopath would, but how can we honestly label Sam as anything right now with him being "the soulless guy" as Sam referred to himself.

Though I will say I enjoyed your post and I liked your interpretation of it all. It was an enjoyable read. I'd actually be really curious to know on how you think Sam is going to be and react when he DOES regain his soul after everything he's been through. What's your opinion and how do you expect him to be, to feel, to portray himself?
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:21 AM   #29
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welcome teddybeargirl :D

i am one of the passionate one. and i say, if i ever jump on you, don't take it personally, it's all Sam's "fault" anyway, for being so deeply in my hear. thats all i got to say.

oh and i am with Lana, give as your opinion about, when Sam regain his soul. i'd like to read it too.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:53 AM   #30
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:wave: Hello, TeddyBearGirl! Be very very very welcome here! :hug:

Thank you for your post, I always like to read the psychological side of the boys. I found your post very interesting, especially what you said about Dean being freaked out right now and not to expect him to calm down any time soon. It explains why he is... Angry, I guess. He knows it's Sam, but not really SAM. If it's hard for US to picture, I only can imagine HIM. It's a totally new situation for them...

I hope to hear more from you. Really liked to read your piece of what's going on in the mind of our boys.
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