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Go Back   Devoted Fans Network > Entertainment Forums > Television > Current Television Boards > Supernatural > Supernatural Episode Forums > Supernatural - Season 6 > 6.07 - Family Matters

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Old 11-06-2010, 01:52 PM   #11
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Ops... I edited my post too late...
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:08 PM   #12
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Sorry. Had to reboot my computer. Updates.

Anyway, referring to your edited post I tried explaining that. Sam will do anything when it comes down to the sake of the hunt. Naturally he is going to grill this woman for the truth, but I still don't get any excitement or joy out of Sam here... maybe a hint of satisfaction that he's gotten down to the truth of it and now they can further carry on with the hunt and getting down to the bottom of it so they can eliminate the bad thing.

And I didn't mean to make you mad, Lele. I've just been doing a lot of watching, reading and looking stuff up about all this as best I can. And rewatching the episodes and studying Sam, it's just the conclusion I've drawn up is all. I'm probably wrong, but that's just what I'm seeing right now.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:15 PM   #13
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I'm not mad, at all, sweetie. Don't worry about that. I was actually afraid that you were mad at me... *chuckles*

You actually found one word that nailed what I meant: Satisfaction. But I saw a bit of "joy" when he found the truth as well.

Honestly, I think the way they're doing this regarding Sam, no one can say the other is wrong because it's a matter mostly of point of view and it's pretty subjective. For me, he felt something. For you, he didn't. And going by the way the writers are stating things, I am the wrong one, not you. ... But I just can't shake the feeling, you know...
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #14
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No, I'm not mad at you. o_o Why would I be? I'm just going by what I've read, what I've observed and such. I mean I'm probably wrong too, but eh. I dunno. I'm all PMS'y and tired and weepy and well, you know. xD A woman! And the fact that I tend to get a little over-emotional when it comes to Sam.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:28 PM   #15
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:hug: I'm glad you're not mad. And I totally understand your PMS'y problem. I have this damn thing, too, even though I don't get emotional when I'm like this. I get..... Well, the filter between my brain and my mouth (and fingers) are just gone in that period... :hahaha: It's terrible because I just can't control myself... (Read Lere's status if you don't believe me... ahaha) Someday it'll get me killed... Or fired... Or BOTH.... :hahaha:
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:31 PM   #16
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:hug: Nah, if I were mad, trust me...you'd totally know it. xDDD

LOL god, I do! I go from being a total bitch to like...weepy and whiny the next day. :hahaha: It sucks, aaaaaand I get like that too. I don't know how to keep my mouth shut and will blow up at the most least suspecting person. I hope it doesn't get me fired either, though.
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:37 PM   #17
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Hi there, all. Thank you, Shaula, for posting my review here. And thank you to those who take time to read. I know it rambles a bit. Hence the name.

Leilana - I'm not going to argue with any of your specific points about Sam and/or Dean's treatment of him. Not because I don't have differing opinions, but because you obviously put a lot of thought and work into your post and you also obviously feel strongly about what you said and how you see your hero. Good enough for me. I don't feel the same way about some of your specific points, but that hardly matters. What matters is that you feel it, you articulated it, and it's done. Thank you for sharing your thoughts so eloquently.

I will say, though, that the whole point of some of my observations wasn't very clear, apparently, if in your reply you continue to point out that Sam has no soul. What I was trying to say was that this whole concept of being without a soul and yet walking and talking and reacting and interacting and being a human being is hard for me to wrap my mind around. When Dean went to Hell, is SOUL went to Hell. His SOUL broke on the rack. His SOUL climbed down and tortured people.

His BODY got buried in some random wooded area. It's not playing out anywhere close to the same with Sam's storyline.

So, all I'm saying with these real-time observations and reactions to what I was seeing and what the Show was and wasn't revealing to us is that it's not cut and dried for me. Not all of it makes sense to this fan. And not all of it jives with how I'd imagine the situation to play out. And that's okay. It doesn't have tomake sense to me for me to enjoy it.

Also? The cage thing? The only reason I pointed it out is that up until that point everyone had been saying that Sam had been "in Hell." When Castiel referred to Dean's time there, he referred to it as Hell. He raised him from Perdition, or whatever. It just caught me during this episode that I kept hearing Cas say "the Cage" as it if were separate from Hell. That's all. No big deal -- I'm not claiming that Sam was at Club Med sipping Mai Tai's while Dean suffered endless torment. *smiles*

I don't seek out spoilers and I don't read the interviews, so I can't speak to what Sera said in an interview. I'm hopeful we do find out more about the Cage and all of that. But as far as messing with lore -- Biblical or otherwise -- they've already proven over the course of 5 seasons that they have no problem shifting things around a little to fit their storyline. And good for them. It IS fiction after all. If they want the Cage to be in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle, it's their call. Not saying they will. *laugh* Just that...it's their story and if they wanted to, who are we to say otherwise?

It's ironic to me that you said you are seeing a lot of "Sam blame" in this particular review because as I posted it on my LiveJournal I found myself wondering how the Dean-centric fans over there would take this as I felt it was my most Sam-centric review yet this season. *shrugs* I spent a lot of time in this ramble trying to figure out where Sam was coming from and why he was motivated to do certain things and musing on how his lack of soul might affect this or that...as well as what having his soul returned to him might do to him and his relationship with Dean.

I said that I was just struggling to understand this character all over again. I'm not going to apologize for this being a Dean-centric review (not that you asked me to). I've been writing these rambles and posting them on my LiveJournal for those who wish to read since Season 3. I begin each season with fair warning that Dean is my hero, but that I try -- try -- to see things from Sam's point of view.

I don't dislike Sam. Quite the contrary. In fact, I felt more for him this episode than I have all season. His character is simply hard for me to connect to, that's all. And apparently that's obvious to all who read.

So if you read again, know that you'll probably see more of the same. It is what it is.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:33 AM   #18
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i wonder about Crowley thing. what if he is lieing? is it even possible, that he can go in Lucifer's cage? king of hell or not? maybe he is just playing with them. he is demon after all. i just don't see him own Sam's soul. it has to bigger than that. i just don't see a demon walk in and out of the cage.

and about Sam again. the scene in "you can't handle the truth". i think it was just a basic instinct, being satisfied about the victory. you don't need a soul to know when you are winning and be satisfied about it. he was pleased with himself cuz he won. no feelings, just knowledge.

Dear Gaelic,
Have you even tried to understand Sam? i feel like you haven't. You said, you don't dislike him, but i just don't see you like him either. otherwise you would have tried. just this once, but yourself in his situation. it's easy to love Dean ( i know, cuz i love him) he is crystal clear hero, and Sam is just opposite. and believe me if i say, it's so hard to love Sam, i love him so blindly sometimes and i have been hurt and cried because of that, but somehow i still love him andright now more than i ever have.
he is going to feel guilty as hell about everything, when his soul is back. and if he don't, well then you can hate him as much as you want, and i am not trying to defend him then. i just wish you can give him some credit. he is the one who sacrificed himself after all.

Last edited by kendall_se; 11-07-2010 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:15 AM   #19
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(Public Disclaimer)
Accusations tone are NOT ok. You don't need to feel offended, people. Just show the other side, post your view. Please? That's the purpose of these threads and the reviews. To have fun, to discuss... Not to get hurt. :\


Quote:
Originally Posted by kendall_se View Post
i wonder about Crowley thing. what if he is lieing? is it even possible, that he can go in Lucifer's cage? king of hell or not? maybe he is just playing with them. he is demon after all. i just don't see him own Sam's soul. it has to bigger than that. i just don't see a demon walk in and out of the cage.
I agree... I think it's weird.

Quote:
and about Sam again. the scene in "you can't handle the truth". i think it was just a basic instinct, being satisfied about the victory. you don't need a soul to know when you are winning and be satisfied about it. he was pleased with himself cuz he won. no feelings, just knowledge.
You need to feel to be satisfied and pleased with himself. Just saying.

Quote:
Dear Gaelic,
Have you even tried to understand Sam? i feel like you haven't. You said, you don't dislike him, but i just don't see you like him either. otherwise you would have tried. just this once, but yourself in his situation.
Gaelic already said she does try to understand Sam. She didn't offend him in her review or post. Her muses are to try and understand him better. I know you're trying to defend him and it's ok to discuss points to show the other side of the coin. She already said that she likes that. I also like that. It's fun. Read the disclaimer at the beginning of my post.

Quote:
it's so hard to love Sam
No, it's really not. I'm a Dean girl and I love Sam. He makes some wrong choices. So does Dean, which only make them humans. That's why I love them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelicspirit View Post
What I was trying to say was that this whole concept of being without a soul and yet walking and talking and reacting and interacting and being a human being is hard for me to wrap my mind around.
I'm glad I'm not alone.

About the cage in Hell, I just noticed this in Lana's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilana
That's where Michael banished Lucifer in real biblical lore. Why would they actually change the fact that the Devil isn't in Hell?
Well, if you want to get in the bottom of things.... Then, no. It's NOT really in the Bible. Not the cage. Not Satan in Cage (or in Hell). These concepts came later, by traditions.
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Last edited by Shaula; 11-07-2010 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:18 AM   #20
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oh, it totally sounded like i am blaming Gaelic for not liking Sam, does it? i do not blame her, i am asking a question. and at this point, i don't even try to defend Sam. i am just trying to understand. i have to try and keep my feelings under control. it's just going to sound like a breaking record again, but sorry that i sounded bad.

Shaula,
some time ago, i read how one girl said, she hopes they are just going to kill Sam off soon ... with all the other bad things included, that's why it's hard to love Sam. There are so many who hates him and wish him gone and that's hurting.
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